Third party support and such, will Nintendo take it?

[Ray Falling]

Okay, so already 3rd parties are getting exitced about Nintendo's upcoming homeconsole. Naturally, existing formulas for games will be applied but Nintendo also asks developers to create new ideas based around the Revolution play style.

Now, this is Nintendo's chance to do it right 3rd party wise, but what I'm concerned about is:
Will Nintendo take all the 3rd party support? As in; will they also allow developers to make more "mature" and "violent" games, such as the games on PC, Xbox and Playstation?

This is Nintendo's chance to get rid of their, ugh I don't even want to say it but, "kiddie" image T_T damn I hate that word. But can you imagine finding Doom and such on the Nintendo shelves? Or other bloody and violent games?

I personally don't know, I know what games I like and stuff so I won't get anything that doesnt fit my taste. But I do want Nintendo to attract more gamers so naturally they'd have to go beyond the first party games which I love and the somewhat...childish orientated games. And if they need more mature games for this then yeah I'm all for that. But the question is; will Nintendo take them?

What are your thoughts on this?

--Ray

[masaki86]

FPS games will undoubtedly be made for the Revo. The vast majority of FPS games are mature style games, so if nintendo want good FPS games, then I think they'll have to look past it.

[Hal_9Million]

Have you heard of Resident Evil 4? This was not only Gamecube exclusive, but it involved such activities as blowing people's heads off, and slicing them in half with chainsaws. I don't think that "mature" content is going to be a difficulty this time round. Though I do still hate the fact it's refered to as mature when most people who appreciate it are "immature" kids. I prefer violent, or extremely graphic as they give a better representation. I hope they get a lot of FPS support, and games like GTA. Not that I really want these games personally, but other people will, and they were both lacking form the Gamecube. Revolution already looks the part aesthetically, now they just need the software.

[Ray Falling]

FPS games will undoubtedly be made for the Revo. The vast majority of FPS games are mature style games, so if nintendo want good FPS games, then I think they'll have to look past it.

This is very true, but a console can't live off FPS' only.
I was just checking the Cube release list and my god, that has some weird games in it, games that probably won't even make it on the market anyway but...God that's just horrible.

So yeah I would like to see some of them big RPG's too that are more mature and yes FPS...

[Ray Falling]

Have you heard of Resident Evil 4? This was not only Gamecube exclusive, but it involved such activities as blowing people's heads off, and slicing them in half with chainsaws. I don't think that "mature" content is going to be a difficulty this time round. Though I do still hate the fact it's refered to as mature when most people who appreciate it are "immature" kids. I prefer violent, or extremely graphic as they give a better representation. I hope they get a lot of FPS support, and games like GTA. Not that I really want these games personally, but other people will, and they were both lacking form the Gamecube. Revolution already looks the part aesthetically, now they just need the software.

Yes I heard about RE4 and thats still only one game my friend, now we also have Killer 7 and Geist is probably more mature too, but still most games aren't

But yeah I agree with you on having games such as GTA and the like, I wouldn't get them either but then some people wouldn't get Metroid...so, I'd want the games available so people who do actually want those games would get them on Revolution rather than rival consoles n_n

[ThePigMarcher]

With the recentish releases of Killer 7 and Resident Evil 4 I don't believe that 'mature' content will be a particular problem.

Obviously , the biggest problem is getting the 3rd parties on board , but , on seeing/reading some initial reactions from these people I think even their support is virtually guaranteed (as long as Nintendo remove some of its bullish licensing issues).

As for 1st party support , the lacklustre sales of the crimianally under-rated 'Eternal Darkness' with Silicon Knights may prevent Nintendo themselves attempting such a venture. The so-called child-like content of Nintendo's games is surely part of their charm.

Personally , I believe this whole mature content thing is over-rated , I have fully enjoyed my Gamecube experience and do not feel that I have missed anything of importance on the rival machines.

Don't forget Nintendo are attempting to distance themselves from their rivals (thank god IMO , gaming was getting stale) , so how this will affect their future plans remains to be seen.

[Ray Falling]

With the recentish releases of Killer 7 and Resident Evil 4 I don't believe that 'mature' content will be a particular problem.

Obviously , the biggest problem is getting the 3rd parties on board , but , on seeing/reading some initial reactions from these people I think even their support is virtually guaranteed (as long as Nintendo remove some of its bullish licensing issues).

As for 1st party support , the lacklustre sales of the crimianally under-rated 'Eternal Darkness' with Silicon Knights may prevent Nintendo themselves attempting such a venture. The so-called child-like content of Nintendo's games is surely part of their charm.

Personally , I believe this whole mature content thing is over-rated , I have fully enjoyed my Gamecube experience and do not feel that I have missed anything of importance on the rival machines.

Don't forget Nintendo are attempting to distance themselves from their rivals (thank god IMO , gaming was getting stale) , so how this will affect their future plans remains to be seen.



You make a good point, I myself have enjoyed the Cube to the fullest and am very pleased with the games (though not that many) I have. But a company such as Nintendo can't exist on that alone. They will need the 3rd party support n_n

But having Square-Enix on board and such 0_0 we're in for some good times

--Ray

[gaggle64]

Is anyone else daydreaming about "Time Crisis Revolution", right about now? :yes: :yes:

[system_error]

I guess support does not depend on the controller but more on the actual hardware and the user base. The first year is important - if the userbase is too small even the best controller can 't change the lack of third party support. Nintendo now needs to continue its strategy with innovation but also try to help developers and offer them good deals.

Square Enix did not leave the Nintendo because the N64 was a bad console - they hated cartridges and the price of them (including the little storage they offered).

Okay it seems many big developers are excited about the Revolution now Nintendo should use this and offer SDKs to implement the controller in an easy way, accept every good game even if it does not directly fit into their philosophy and most important try to sell your ideas!

[Zelda_Rulez]

Well when Gamecube was first released it had relatively good third party support especially in the first year in my opinion. But after that the support became less and less. I think the first year of the Revolution will have good support , the only thing I'm worried about is the later stages. I just hope third parties will continue to fully support the Revolution throughout the rest of it's lifespan.

[paperwario II]

NES is a 1st console where manufacturers openly courted third-partys.

i just cut and pasted that

here's another one

not like Xbox, Nintendo, or PS later, hardware manufacturers lost exclusive control of platform's game supply. leading to floods of low-qual third-party titles

no dice, what a drag!

[Maxi678]

This is Nintendo's opening to bring in as much 3rd party support as they can. If they bring in as much as possible, they will recover from the GC and its lack of 3rd party games.

[gaggle64]

I expect there to be a good level of third-party support. Nintendo worked hard getting third-party support for GC, and I think they succeded. With third-party support also clamoring to get on the DS bandwagon as well as developers such as Square-Enix declaring their concrete support early-on, I'm not expecting a lack of games to be a major problem on the new system.

[Rolf]

Once again we need to revise our definition of 'mature'. Nintendo is an artist of the video gaming industry and will support or reject games based on more than their levels of blood and violence. So long as the levels of blood, language, sexual references, etc. add to the game, have a purpose, and are balanced with regards to the game's audience, story, characters, world and situation(s), Nintendo will support it.

[Pit-Jr]

Ive thought about this too, i dont think Nintendo even wants all the PS3/360 ports. And rightly so. Nintendo wants to create a different experience and have a vastly different library than its competitors. Just look at the DS library compared to the PSP for reference.

[Hostile]

I like Rolf's point. In fact I'd say he's pretty-much spot on. People talk about "mature" games, but honestly, who could be more "mature" than a game's company that's been around for 120 years? A company that built the console business as we know it today. Nintendo are the definition of gaming maturity because they realise that they dont need excess gore or rapper endorsements to sell their wares, they just need to make it fun.

[kav82]

I like Rolf's point. In fact I'd say he's pretty-much spot on. People talk about "mature" games, but honestly, who could be more "mature" than a game's company that's been around for 120 years? A company that built the console business as we know it today. Nintendo are the definition of gaming maturity because they realise that they dont need excess gore or rapper endorsements to sell their wares, they just need to make it fun.

I totally agree, and what fun it is too!!!!!!!!! :D


It's a great chance for little-known studios to take advantage and come up with ideas and concepts on games they'd like to produce for the Rev, with it having a different take on the gaming (control) there isn't as much competition (big franchise names) to drown out these developer's games!

It also gives the better known developers chance to expand their game horizons, take a series in a different direction, create a new IP. I hope we see devs really challenging themselves and being creative!

I can't wait to see what lies in store for the Rev!

[Link]

But can you imagine finding Doom and such on the Nintendo shelves? Or other bloody and violent games?

There was a Doom game on the 64, so I don't doubt that they would release one for the rev.

[Hostile]

There was a Doom game on the 64, so I don't doubt that they would release one for the rev.

They had a Duke Nukem game too.

[Smalldude76]

I believe that Nintendo's finally realising the error of their ways in neglect of third parties and mature titles. As many have mentioned, we've seen quite a few mature titles hit the cube this year, and we'll probably get a couple more on the way before the Revolution is tested. Hopefully that I'm not being delusional and that this is true and will carry onto the Revolution. Not just third party games, but first and second party games like Zelda, and here's hoping that the next Metroid will be more mature (wouldn't mind a more involved story either as the first two were boring apart from boss battles). The last request may be a little to much to ask of them, especially of the Miyamoto team as traditionally all of their titles have been 'E' titles like Mario with the unique 'cuter' characters. Problem is that when people think about a Nintendo console , they think of the first and second party titles like Mario. Probably because of Nintendo's past neglect of third party titles. Which is unfortunate because unlike Playstation where third parties like Kojima Productions get a lot of the glory, on the cube games like Baten Kaitos from Namco get fairly low sales and no one knows about it's excellence (although it must have done better than expected as there's a second coming?).

I think that we will see a jump in third party support but while there will be 'mature' titles, I think we'll see a lot more of what Nintendo's been preching - innovation. I expect to see more games like Pikmin doing well on the Revolution as more people buy it. The more people that buy it the more effort developers make to have their game on the system whether it uses the Revolutionary controller or the shell.

[Rolf]

Nintendo are the definition of gaming maturity because they realise that they dont need excess gore or rapper endorsements to sell their wares, they just need to make it fun.Exactly - brilliant post. Fun is something Nintendo has a natural ability and aspiration to create. I just hope the marketing department are limbering up, because with the undeniable potential of the Revolution, its success is really only going to be limited by the manner in which it is promoted. If the market accepts it as the 'cool' console, third-party support will follow, tail wagging.

In closing...

...man I love custard.

[Hostile]

...man I love custard.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA... oh christ... I read that as "I love man custard."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[ViPeR]

I think we're already seeing with the DS the new approach Nintendo is taking. It's getting a lot of games you'd never expect it to, from developers who couldn't give a shit about the GC (Burnout Legends anyone?). I think the reason we're seeing this change only on the DS and not GC is because the GC is effectively dead, any games made on it won't achieve the sales it would on the DS. In the end it's about the money, if they continue to market the DS and co-operate with 3rd parties more openly then we should see some great games for the Revolution. A lot being 3rd party.

[Rolf]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA... oh christ... I read that as "I love man custard."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!If the 'rolls eyes' smiley showed up, I'd use it here.

[Stoof]

The company designed the controller mainly for the Western market. I wouldn't know this for sure, but the idea of having more FPS games in America for the Revolution with a unique feel will sway we hard-headed Americans :). (I hate most FPS games, by the way.)

[Wesley]

Nintendo will take it. But they won't be making it.

[Hero-of-Time]

For Nintendo to be ontop again they will have to try and change the attitude of the gamers themselves and 3rd party support has to be something different. You just have to look at the charts to see that many a generic game seem to outsell, week in and week out , many well developed titles. Which is why im a little worried about the Revolution.

Heres what a mean. The PSP launches in this country with very few killer games at launch or on the horizon and yet the thing still manages to break records on release. Now in Japan they have seemed to wise-up to the PSP and you can see this due to the DS sales in comparison. The Japanese are always crazy for the new style of gameplay I mean you just gotta look at the arcades over there and what people are willing to do in front of each other while playing games so I believe that the Revolution will do well over there. But over here gamers are stuck to there year updates of Fifas and such.

For nintendo to do well they will have to somehow open up the minds of these gamers that are set in their ways. I have mates that wouldnt play on Donkey Konga because they thought the whole bongo concept is stupid and a joke. Its people like this that wont want to make a fool of themselves or embrace change that Nintendo need to turn.

I know that the 3rd-party support is pretty essential as everyone likes to have a selection but if the multi-format game is no different to say the ps3 or xbox 360 version then its not going to go down well. Sure im not asking for developers to just whack in some feature that uses the controller what im asking is that they take the time to realize the possibilites and to fully explore and use them in the games they create. I mean they all say that its a great controller and they really excited but how many will fully utilize the thing?

In my eyes Nintendo need to breakthrough the barrier of the "common" gamer and the 3rd parties need to put their money where their mouth is and develop the killer games that Nintendo so well deserve.

END OF RANT

[Schpickles]

Sorry - I'm in a rush so I had to skip reading most of this thread... just a reply to the early threads...

Something that frustrates me as a games developer is this notion that no-one wants to make the games described for a Nintendo console. Just like many gamers, many developers have a soft spot for Nintendo's hardware and games, and would like to develop on Nintendo platforms. There's never a shortage of desire to make games for Nintendo hardware, or a lack of support for what Nintendo do.

The problem is, it isn't developers who fund games development - it's the people who have to make money from the project - the publishers. That's the problem that Nintendo never seems to crack - their platforms are always the most expensive to print for, have a hard-to-fathom user base and don't achieve the throughput of other consoles. For Nintendo this doesn't represent a problem - their games and their hardware sell well, and they make a tidy profit. For other publishers though, it can be hard to make money on a Nintendo platform. It is Nintendo's job to convince publishers that their platform is desirable for gamers, that it represents a great business opportunity, and that they are willing to help publishers make money on their platform. If they can do this, and back up their claims with sales figures, they will get 3rd party support... simple as that.

It's never a "conspiracy" or some kind of hatred of Nintendo... it's just business. Nintendo need to make it worth publishers' while to back their console(s) and there will be all the variety of games you are describing. As you see Sony and Microsoft doing at all of these press conferences, Nintendo need to sell a brand message to publishers, undermining what they want for their platform, and what opportunities they can provide for 3rd parties.

[Patch]

will [Nintendo] also allow developers to make more "mature" and "violent" games, such as the games on PC, Xbox and Playstation?

Of course they will. Do you think Nintendo regularly say "No, your game is too violent for our sweet little console. You are hereby banned from releasing it"?

The GC version of BMX XXX was the least censored of the three and as someone pointed out, the Gamecube has Resident Evil 4, Killer 7.

The reason for there being few mature games on Nintendo consoles is not directly because of Nintendo - it is because most third parties see a bigger audience for mature games on the PS2 and XBOX.

[Schpickles]

Of course they will. Do you think Nintendo regularly say "No, your game is too violent for our sweet little console. You are hereby banned from releasing it"?

The GC version of BMX XXX was the least censored of the three and as someone pointed out, the Gamecube has Resident Evil 4, Killer 7.

The reason for there being few mature games on Nintendo consoles is not directly because of Nintendo - it is because most third parties see a bigger audience for mature games on the PS2 and XBOX.

Absolutely spot on.

[system_error]

Schpickles is right about Nintendo making it hard for small developers who need to make profit to survive developing a game for a Nintendo console. I would exclude the GBA/DS because those have a quite big user base nowadays. To be honest if I would start a small company I would either start making PS2 games only or XBOX only. If I would be successfull I could start porting games for the Cube too but until I am Capcom, Namco or any other developers with strong franchises that can minimize the risk of losing everything I could never only develop for the Gamecube.

Nintendos philosophy should change a bit - the Yamauchi fund to help small developers is great and so is the fact that they claim the Revolution will help to keep development costs low but there is more to be down. I am not saying Nintendo should publish every game but it should become a lot easier and comfortable to develop for a Nintendo system.

I personally would like that developing for the Revolution is open to more people - I don't want to play backups or anything illegal on the Revolution because that would hurt Nintendo and the customers. But why not let my run my "Hello World" from a memory card? Does software development always has to be closed for "big" companies? I don't expect Nintendo giving out dev kits to everyone but some sort of downgraded software and the possibility to run it would be sufficient.

With the WiFi out of the box it could be quite interesting to let talented coders make small games for online play - limit the memory (to fight against illegal backups and stuff) and of course check those who really want to release something to all in case of trojans, malicious code, etc. A online plattform for independent developers might be a great idea.